one lonely success - Latest Comments in new rules

Re: new rules

SIS — Tue, 30 Aug 2005 20:43:07 -0000

Perhaps those around us should...oh, I don't know...practice what they preach while doing what they are asking others to do. That is, have an open mind. And to that end, without judgment. Isn't that one of the fundamental points to Christianity (or any belief/religion for that matter). Having an open mind to accept others. Maybe the best advice is in the comment; "Please remember this, young Jeff Carter, the world is a wonderful and magical place that neither science nor god can completely explain." Well, if you remember this young commenter, then why we even havin' this discussion? If god can't explain and science can't explain, isn't it our duty to try to merge the gap and make the explanation for ourselves? And, isn't it our duty to allow others this same luxury without criticizing, pointing fingers, placing blame or calling names? Dontcha think?

Re: new rules

apartmentbinary5 — Tue, 30 Aug 2005 09:21:37 -0000

good thing you are not hostile, jeff carter.

Re: new rules

Jami — Tue, 30 Aug 2005 06:54:22 -0000

Good points Jeff Carter. I have to admit that some of that argument cannot be denied. The only problem is that you had to twist my words to make a couple of your points. This quick breakdown is yours:
- hostile
- a victim of religion & hateful because of it
- immature
- looking for someone to place blame
The actual excerpts from my response:
- Hostile - Yes, I said that you have hostility, but I still don’t see how you’ve proven that to be incorrect. Also, it’s a personal opinion, which means that it really cannot be decidedly wrong.
- a victim of religion & hateful because of it – What I actually said is that I believe you were exposed to something/someone that caused you to be hateful. I don’t believe I called you a victim.
- Immature – Again, it may just be semantics, but this wasn’t in my post either. Yes, I said that you need “to grow up and stop placing blame.” Although this may be a negotiable point, as it is an opinion, your choice to turn around and call me immature, as opposed to making an argument in your favor, leads me to believe that maybe you find some actual merit in that one.
- looking for someone to place blame – I wasn’t actually referring to a specific individual, but more the idea of shifting the responsibility for your issues (whatever those might be) off of you and onto an institution or group of people. I guess I feel that I have experienced many things in my life that could cause me to be embittered, but instead, I chose to use those help me grow as a person. Hey… that’s just me. I’m not suggesting that I have anything figured out to an absolute, but no one can make a valid accusation that I am not trying.

Again, if you hadn't chosen to manipulate the truth to get your points across, then perhaps I would be able to see more validity in them. That does not negate the things you mentioned that are sound observations, so I say thank you for your insight. Also, my sincerity is something you can question endlessly, but you cannot disprove that either. If I apologize for others actions, I am simply telling you that there is a part of me that is pained by the idea of people (in this case you) being hurt. I suppose that may come from the same part of me that you consider prejudiced against you – that side lacking reason. The irony in all of this is that you feel so attacked by my so-called prejudices, seeing as how I do not know you, but they stem from the same place that has come to your defense on more than one occasion also without knowing you. This is the last bit of fuel I will add to this fire because I have a personal stake in my concern that extends beyond discussions of God and creation. I suppose there are times when logic and reason need to be put on the proverbial back burner to allow for a little faith. That faith is what allows me to keep a personal perspective instead of turning my every emotion inside out until I can reason them into non-existence.

P.S. I do have to give you credit for finally jumping off the agnostic wall that you’ve been perched on and proclaiming yourself an atheist. Although the words are actually interchangeable, I find it interesting to see that you have decided on one over the other. Good day and take care Jeff Carter.

Re: new rules

Jeff Carter — Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:33:36 -0000

Jami,

With my best judgment in mind here goes...

I appreciate your unemotional comment and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with this growing little crowd of souls. So let's get into it.

First, you are correct. You don't know me. I'm a name on a website and a writer on a little blog in some corner of the internet. We've never met, never spoken and never enjoyed a light hearted debate over coffee. Indeed, this is the first time you and I have corresponded, and as such, I was surprised to find that you already had so many opinions of me. However, such pre-judgments are often times the norm for individuals who associate themselves with a religion whose fundamental precepts include not judging your fellow man. Nonetheless, such judgments on your part most likely facilitated your ability to reduce me down to a poor lost victim of religion and thereby gave you some much needed moral high ground.

For those just joining our little debate, allow me to summarize your comment:

According to you, I am...
- hostile
- a victim of religion & hateful because of it
- immature
- looking for someone to place blame

Allow me to address these statements. First, I think it's interesting that you characterize me as hostile. When in fact, the purpose of this blog entry was to share a conversation I was having with myself. My point was one of introspection and the only person I was attacking was jeff carter. Conversely, you came to my website and felt it appropriate to post a comment telling me so many interesting things about myself, that by your own admission left you "enraged". So who really has the issue with hostility? It is interesting to me how confrontational Christians can be. As an atheist, I'm always amused by how Christians feel like they are the poor, persecuted minority. When in fact, your religion makes up 90% of the citizens of our country. Our Congress opens its sessions with a prayer to your god. Our courts have us swear on the bible and to god to tell the whole truth, and alas, even the coins in my pocket are embossed with 'in god we trust'. Still you are so defensive of your beliefs and I would argue that this "hostility" is really based on your own spiritual insecurities.

So based on what you read here at jeffcarter.net, you've deduced that I am a victim of religion and that this has made me hateful. Interesting. So, let's say that I had been molested by a priest when I was eight years old. Should I take your apology as sincere? Are you really sorry for whatever may have victimized me as an impressionable child? Since the apology was coming from a self-professed Christian, can I assume that you were speaking on behalf of Jesus? Now, was I abused by a priest when I was a kid? No. Has this example demonstrated how dreadfully insincere and laced with malice your apology was? Yes.

According to your comment, I need to "grow up and stop looking for someone to blame". Again, it's so interesting that you know how immature I am--you know, because we've never met and all. But thank you again for showing the rest of us how a "mature" person acts--oh and Christian too, I almost forgot---a mature Christian.

So now, that I've addressed all of my short-comings as a "person", let's talk about you. Not about you as a person, not about your character or lack thereof, let's talk about your ideas. I thought it was interesting that when confronted with the notion that your belief system is "a fairytale" that you would prefer to go right ahead believing in it. What harm is there really in believing in something that makes you feel better about yourself and gives you an identity and a moral high ground? The harm comes in allowing yourself to accept something for its therapeutic value despite any inherent falsehoods that it may include. I would argue that you have nothing to gain either emotionally or spiritually by adhering to a falsehood, regardless of how well it lets you sleep at night.

I would encourage you to embrace reason and use it as your tool towards self-realization and spiritual discovery. Perhaps Christianity provides you with what you need to become "a more enlightened, conscientious, and loving individual everyday" and perhaps you can allow yourself to find comfort and purpose in a belief system that is based on so many inaccuracies, self-contradictions and lack of reason. If your beliefs have made you such a completed person, then why the need to confront the lowly atheist who stepped on your spiritual toes?

You and I are really debating a classic and fundamental conflict between faith and reason. Faith and reason are opposites. They are diametrically opposed to each other; they are mutually exclusive. By definition, faith is belief without reason. Faith is the means by which you acquire knowledge about the universe around you. I, however, choose to use reason as my guide, and consequently faith is excluded. You accepted your beliefs on faith and therefore excluded reason.

Since you were so kind to excuse my ranting because I was "clearly hurt by religion" then I will also excuse your comment because you are clearly someone who was "saved by religion". Perhaps you were one of those troubled lost souls who had been dealt a bad hand and you needed someone to reach down and save you from a life of despair. Perhaps life was too much for you to handle on your own and you needed divine intervention to change the course of your destiny. Perhaps you just needed a drug and religion was a prescription that society would find acceptable.

In closing, thank you again for your comment/counter-point. I'm sorry that I offended you so deeply and emotionally with such few words. In turn, I will embrace the teachings of your Christ and forgive you for your hurtful personal judgments and won't assume that he gave you permission to speak on his behalf or to claim his name.

Re: new rules

apartmentbinary5 — Sun, 28 Aug 2005 14:19:21 -0000

Alas, the rantings of a poor hurt child, so desperate for attention he will insult and “look down” upon those around him. You ask a question: “am i no better than the bible-thumping-right-wing crazies that i look down on? “ The answer: you are one in the same. As humans we are constantly trying to class things, including ourselves. To achieve this we compare and contrast one to another. Lets practice this: JeffCarter.net vs. Bible thumping right-wing crazies….

Jeff Carter an opinionated self-righteous blogger who defines himself as an antichristian.

Bible thumping-right-wing crazies are opinionated self-righteous preachers (preblogging) who define themselves as Christians.

Score: 1 point Jeff Carter; 1 point BTRWC (Bible thumping-right-wing crazies)

Since we are all on this same little planet and none of us really know what is going to happen in the end, can we attempt to practice tolerance and patience? This is something both sides should understand.

Please remember this, young Jeff Carter, the world is a wonderful and magical place that neither science nor god can completely explain.

apartmentbinary5

Re: new rules

Jami — Sun, 28 Aug 2005 13:36:33 -0000

Against my better judgment here goes…

I so desperately wanted to comment on this blog some days ago. I made myself wait until the intensity had waned a bit only because I truly despise my usual emotional ranting. I prefer the calmness associated with the giving a little distance. So, I read this commentary/analysis/psuedo-self actualized proselytization and became almost enraged. I say almost because I refuse to allow someone I don’t know and have no true understanding of to invoke that kind of a reaction out of me. Let me sum it up like this… I’m a person trying everyday to be a Christian. If that means that I have bought into a fairytale, then so be it. My fairytale is helping me to become a more enlightened, conscientious, and loving individual everyday. I know that I have something beyond just the tangibles to hold me to my own word. Oddly enough I understand your base issue with “bible-thumping-right-wing crazies,” but you negate your point with your hostility. I apologize for whoever/whatever you were exposed to that made you so hateful, but it’s time to grow up and stop placing blame. I spoke to someone about this the other day, and he told me to take into consideration that you were obviously “hurt by Christianity.” It’s like they say about guns Jeff Carter… people hurt people.

Re: new rules

Jeff Carter — Mon, 22 Aug 2005 23:00:09 -0000

rafalosophy, thanks for your words and your prayers. i trust that evolution won't betray me and lead me down the straight and narrow.

amen.
jeffcarter.net

Re: new rules

rafalosophy — Mon, 22 Aug 2005 17:16:52 -0000

you can do whatever you want, jeffcarter.net. fairy tales can be exciting, and when you find ideas in one that can keep you healthy, optimistic, selfless, and out of jail, then "logic"ally you've found a "reason" to focus your "blind" eyes on something positive.
so walk your lines, big foot.
no, you aren't any better than the bible-thumpers, but the fact that you leave room in your noggin to believe in anything, PERIOD, should give you just enough peace of mind to sleep at night.
i'll be praying that, by the grace of science, when you wake tomorrow you haven't evolved into christian.